Manton 12G

[Dennis K Beecher 918]

Hi, new member here. Looking to identify historical data on a "Manton SxS'.
Regardless of history/origin....I Love this Shotgun, it has Beautifull scrolling, patina, and in rather very good shape. I intend to 'wall display', not interested in firing (its retired., like me!). Attached are some pics, 1) is the underside of the barrels, showing I believe 'proof markings', the word 'Roses', the number 14, the word 'Patent', the initials 'C-H', and a marking 'No20'; another picture shows on the top of the barrels, on the band between the barrels...'London Laminated Steel'. And a third picture is of the lock, showing awesome scrolling and the name 'Manton'.. its on both sides).

So , any help is much appreciated. I won't be disappointed of the data, because I still see a lot of beauty in this piece to display.
Thanks !
Denny

[John 39]

I sorry if this reply is disappointing. I am not at all sure about this gun. Is it a Joseph Manton or John Manton? I suspect it is a John Manton, in their later years most of ths frim's guns were Birmingham made. I am certain Joseph would have never have used Rose barrels. Is there any address?? Your pictures are not very clear, it seems to have London proof marks which may be genuine but I suspect the gun was made in Birmingham and only proved in London.

Aaron Rose was recorded as a gun barrel maker at Birch Hill Mill, Halesowen (the spelling of Hales Owen changed from time to time), Worcestershire, from 1841 to 1850.

On 24 October 1850 he patented a method of making barrels with twisting machinery (No.13299); barrels so made are stamped "Rose's Patent". Yours are not twist barrels. London laminated steel usually indicates inferior barrels. A number of pin-fire shotgun barrels (1860-1870) have been seen stamped with "Roses Patent No. 20" but because this patent was not recorded it may have been only a provisional patent, probably for longitudinally welded barrels.

In 1853 the name of the business changed to William and Major Rose.

From 1860 the business traded as Rose Brothers at Hales-Owen Mills and Forge, and they had a retail warehouse selling guns and revolvers at 13 Newton Street, Birmingham. For some time after 1864 this was run by Miss R Rose. The retail warehouse moved in 1870 to 25 Newton Street.

On 3 December 1884 M Rose registered patent No. 15884 for barrels made from sheet steel and longitudinally welded, your gun probably dates from this era. Barrels of mild steel coiled and welded were patented under No. 218 of 1885. On 9 December 1884 W Rose registered patent No. 16147 for barrels made from cast steel and wrought iron.

In 1889 the firm closed the Birmingham warehouse and traded at Halesowen Mill as Rose Tube Co Ltd, the directors of which were Aaron and Benjamin Rose.

I don't know what Number 14 and C-H refer to, mabt the barrel finisher was C-H.

[Dennis K Beecher 918]

Awesome Information ! Thank you. Genuine Manton is not critical to me. Getting 'history' of the shotgun, regardless of origin, is my interest.

On the side, there is no 'J Manton'...just 'Manton'......combined with the barrels saying 'Rose Patent No20', along with the London Proof stamps all makes quite a 'scratch your head' what is going on here with this shotgun. Based on your info.....the Rose Patent may have been provisional (1860-1870) and used in 1884 on this barrel(based on the 'London Laminated Steel' stamp). Make sense?
But then I question why 'Manton' is stamped on the side.......was there a merger of business......or purchase of parts from one gunmaker to another??

Either way, it does seem to confirm to be a 19th century, English Shotgun. And I really like the tooling and finish.

I wish I could say with confidence tho.....who actually made this shotgun?

If you think of anything else, please do holler. Should you like more pics, I can certainly do that. Oh, and no, I did not see any 'addresses' anywhere on the shotgun.

Thanks again !

Denny

[John 39]

Hi Danny,

You really need to pay the membership fee so that you can look at the
histories of both firms in our database.

John

[Dennis K Beecher 918]

Uh.....I paid for membership On January 11th.
What am I missing?
Denny

[John 39]

Sorry, didn't know you'd paid ! You aren't missing anything. Just enjoy the gun !