John Patstone - email from James Warren posted by moderator

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John 39
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 5:30 pm

John Patstone - email from James Warren posted by moderator

Post by John 39 »

Serial number enquiry:

Do you have information for a John Patstone, Southampton
.577 Express Double Rifle serial #1935

Should be on or after 1878?

Thanks so much and best regards,
John 39
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: John Patstone - email from James Warren posted by moderator

Post by John 39 »

Hi James,

This gun was proved in London but that doesn’t mean it was made there but it may have been. Many wealthy individuals going to India and Africa bought guns at the last minute – in case they had to defend themselves against lions, tigers and elephants. Patstone had a good reputation although he didn’t make guns himself. The crown over V mark is the London View mark to check the gun might survive full proof, the lion over GP (in scroll) mark is the London Provisional Proof Mark, an extra insurance that the gun might survive full proof. The crown over CP mark is the London definitive proof mark. The gun is not nitro proved so use only with black powder or black substitute. The 25 mark is the calibre, under the 1925 rules of Proof it indicates .577. The gun trade was usually more advanced than the rules of proof introduced by the London and Birmingham Proof Houses. which may have come well after this gun was made.

If you take the gun apart you may find a trade mark or initials on the wood or metal. This could indicate the barrel or action maker or the finisher or stocker. Your idea of late 1880s or 1890s seems as accurate as one can get. I guess the address on the rib is 25 High Street. In 1897 the firm became John Patstone & Son. The .577s were very popular and were being sold well into the new century despite the discovery of Nitro powders.

John
John 39
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: John Patstone - email from James Warren posted by moderator

Post by John 39 »

My article on British proof could be wrong, maybe you would know; in that the proof marks just show the gauge “25” and not an added “EX” (or .577 EX) that would mean before proof rules of 1887?
Wondering if the “.577” looks like it was stamped later?
John 39
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: John Patstone - email from James Warren posted by moderator

Post by John 39 »

EX would stand for Express and this would mean Nitro Powder proof, nothing to do with 1887.

Your gun is actually a 24 bore under the old descriptions, the 25 is a slightly more accurate, .577 merely confirms the calibre in inches
John 39
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: John Patstone - email from James Warren posted by moderator

Post by John 39 »

Hello John,

Thank you ever so much for your input. Very helpful as usual.

Unfortunately there is no address on the rib, and no other marks on the barrels in front of the flats. The buttstock is a later replacement so no info there.

This one will remain an enigma as to any closer dating.

Best Regards,
James Warren
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